| Why do religious people only recognize the saving part? We don't! | You asked why religious people ‘only recognize the saving part, not the fact that God caused what was needed to be saved from’. The short answer is: We don’t! Maybe there are a few religious people in the world who think God is in all the pleasant experiences and none of the unpleasant, but if you look at religious literature I think you’ll find both sides presented equally, and in my own personal belief and feeling I have no problem with a loving God giving us opportunities to grow and become better by overcoming challenges. |
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both pleasant and unpleasant are from God; we tend to thank more for things we like |
Many pleasant things I believe come from God. And many unpleasant ones. I believe God created mosquitoes. I tend to thank him more often and with more vigor for the things I like. Yet I do thank him for mosquitoes because I know swatting them and being itchy after being bitten by them—which I intensely dislike—helps me grow and become better. But I thank him more energetically and enthusiastically for a beautiful sunset, for my children, for you, for guidance and direction, for pleasant experiences. Why? Because I enjoy these things more, at least in the present. |
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those who trust in God thank him for everything |
When I was young and I opened my Christmas presents, I found such things as a remote controlled car and a bike, and also such things as socks and underwear. I thanked my parents for the car, and I thanked them for the socks and underwear. But my thanks for the remote controlled car was significantly more intense, more excited, and more heartfelt. Yet I know I needed the socks and underwear, and I was glad to have them when I walked long distances and didn’t get blistered feet or chapped thighs. In the same way, those who trust in God actually thank him for everything. But especially we thank him for the things we like. And when we feel, as the man did in the movie, that God may have had a direct hand in giving us something we like, we thank him even more sincerely. |
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it's just human nature to thank more for things we like |
Perhaps if we were perfect and understood God as he really is, we’d thank him just as hard for the time when the person did get hit by the train and died, because of all the growth that came from it and the eventual joy and eternal happiness that resulted. But from our human nature, it is natural in the moment to thank him loudly and strongly for the things we like, especially the miracles, and not be so enthusiastic in our thanks for those things we don’t like or don’t see the reason for. |
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because we trust God, we also thank him for the hard times |
I have thanked God continually for our many good times together. I also trust him so I thanked him for the hard time I’m having now with you being gone, what led up to that, and all these emotions. I don’t know what exactly will come of it all, but I believe good will come of it in the end, because God is in control. I can’t say that my thanks to him for these hard times has been as heartfelt as my thanks for the good times, but it has been there and it has been real. |
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many things happen according to the natural order God created; not because God chose them just for us |
Here is more on the subject of God ‘causing’ ‘bad’ things to happen: God created a world containing mosquitoes, depression, pain, train/car collisions …, but except possibly in very rare cases these things have happened according to the natural order he created, and not because God chose them for us individually. I believe he makes individual exceptions to his natural order and the probabilistic law that he created, but for the most part things happen according to the way he created the world and not according to a specific decision on his part. |
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sometimes God intervenes in the natural order of things |
Sometimes our greatest thanks come when we believe he’s made an exception for our specific benefit. I know many times when I felt and believed that he had intervened in the natural order of things, and I felt very grateful for his doing so. This gratitude is primarily for his manifestation of his love for me—that he was willing to change his natural order directly on my behalf—and not for the particular results that were pleasant/desirable. |
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we feel particular gratitude when we think God intervenes |
Even when I don’t like what happened, I still feel this deep gratitude to him when I feel his hand was in what happened. Such an example is Melissa’s [Ray's former wife] death. I miss her terribly at times, but I’m grateful for his planning this world so that she would die so I could have you in my life. What I wanted for myself was to have her by my side my whole life long. What he wanted for me was something better. So he took from me one very good something and gave me something else—in this case someone—you—that would bring even more happiness into my life than I could have had with her by my side for the rest of my life. So I am truly grateful for a ‘bad’ thing that happened to me. And in this particular case I believe he actually planned it, and may have intervened. If he did intervene and actually acted to bring Melissa home and bring you and I together, you might ask the question if he was a murderer. No! He brought Melissa and I both to a better state, so how can we fault him? |
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death is a gift from God allowing us to progress to a happier state |
If a person dies on the operating table it is not murder because the surgeon was trying to heal the person. Viewing death itself as evil is a mistake: death is a gift from God allowing us to progress to a happier state. God’s perfect knowledge combined with his perfect love makes it impossible that he has ever, or will ever, do anything wrong: whatever he does, whatever action he takes, things will always work out better than if he had not taken that action. So it is always good. |
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God sees everything, including all possible future results of every action. So, God never has to wonder about what is the right thing. |
An extreme example will illustrate my point: If I was in front of a madman who was about to torture and kill a group of innocent children, and my only way of stopping the madman was to kill him, I would, and I would consider that I had done a good thing. So God may have actively chosen that Melissa get that rare form of cancer that gave us those four years of fighting it, and eventually taken her home. And if this action on his part brings more happiness to her and I and our children than any other path, I submit to God’s will for me, and thank him for it. Another example is when a doctor must kill one person to save the other, a situation that has happened during labor gone awry. If either the mother or the baby will die, but both will die if the doctor does nothing, the doctor should act. In God’s case it is easier, though, since he sees everything and all possible future results of every action. So he never has to wonder what is the right thing. He sees it clearly and perfectly and does it, whatever it may be. This is simple faith in God’s love and ability, as a child trusts in their parent. |
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God helps us become ‘who we are’; good things can then be a result of who we have become |
I believe that many of the good and wonderful things that happen to me are not the result of God’s direct intervention but rather of the natural order he has created. Going back to the sunset, when I enjoy it I feel gratitude for God creating a world of beauty, but I usually don’t think he created this particular sunset just for me. And many things, I have gotten through my own hard work and diligence. So I feel grateful for being led through large decisions of life by him so that I would become the person I have become, with the results that many good things happen all around me. In this case my gratitude to him is focused primarily on his help in my becoming who I am, and not on the particular result achieved. |
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we can never know if there was direct intervention or not; be thankful by default all things—directly or indirectly— are the result of God's action |
Of course I always know that it is possible that there was direct intervention that I was not aware of in the particular event I am happy about, so I always acknowledge that too. Rarely am I ever sure that God did not intervene somehow, and only occasionally am I quite sure that he did. I believe all things that happen, whether I like them or not, are directly or indirectly the result of God’s action, either in creating and designing this world for us to enjoy and learn from, or in his direct intervention to change particular things for our benefit. This recognition that all things that happen are for our benefit, and that he has had a hand in them one way or the other causes gratitude to him for everything that happens, ‘good’ or ‘bad’. |
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God often looks at his natural creation and says:
‘This will be good for my Ray for today’; other times, he tweaks to make it better |
Of course, as I explained earlier, I tend to feel that gratitude more strongly when I like the immediate result and/or I can see the advantage of what happened. When it is a remote controlled car, not underwear. Another way to look at this concept is: I think God doesn’t look at my day today and go through it hour by hour creating the events of the day, deciding I will stub my toe at this point and hear your lovely voice at this point. Rather he looks at his natural creation and sees what will happen to me today if he doesn’t intervene, and I think he mostly sits back and says ‘that will be fine—my beloved son Ray will grow from these challenges and enjoy these joys.’ If he wants, he makes a tweak to make it even better. But I think many times he leaves it alone. |
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God always does what is best for our eternal happiness |
So, what happens is the result of his natural order rather than a direct decision on his part. But he always always always always does what is best for our eternal happiness. Because he loves us. Just like I love you. Except he loves us more. (Is that even possible? I believe it is true but incomprehensible to me: I can’t imagine how a person could love someone more than I love you.) |